tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7163441833245663827.post524493234286367133..comments2024-03-22T10:49:51.766-05:00Comments on Horizons: How money corrodes our public discourseNancy LeTourneauhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12614317154146836694noreply@blogger.comBlogger29125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7163441833245663827.post-9963138212813898912014-09-30T09:45:35.926-05:002014-09-30T09:45:35.926-05:00Google "Eric Holder prison reform" and y...Google "Eric Holder prison reform" and you will find pages of links. Nancy LeTourneauhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12614317154146836694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7163441833245663827.post-9828008183203436392014-09-30T09:38:10.635-05:002014-09-30T09:38:10.635-05:00"As a matter of fact, any public employee tha..."As a matter of fact, any public employee that is as successful at reform as Holder has been demonstrates their remarkable competence..."<br /><br />Link, please.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7163441833245663827.post-21207100325405531642014-09-30T07:47:33.815-05:002014-09-30T07:47:33.815-05:00The assumptions you're making about me are hal...The assumptions you're making about me are half right. Yes, I'd pretty much like to throw out 2 centuries of our prison system. But my reasons for that have much more to do with the fact that I've worked professionally on that for over 30 years and have zero to do with any politician. As a matter of fact, any public employee that is as successful at reform as Holder has been demonstrates their remarkable competence - which folks like you don't seem to be able to see because you've bought into all the conservative "tough on crime" bs.Nancy LeTourneauhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12614317154146836694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7163441833245663827.post-21706252464996789522014-09-29T21:06:23.924-05:002014-09-29T21:06:23.924-05:00You too. Even though it seems you want to toss out...You too. Even though it seems you want to toss out almost 2 centuries of our prison system just so a politician you are a fan of doesn't face criticism, I'm sure that's not what you really believe.<br />it is, however, odd that you use the old GWB excuse about Holder (he isn't corrupt, he's just incompetent).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7163441833245663827.post-21680022822828412842014-09-29T14:33:56.627-05:002014-09-29T14:33:56.627-05:00Of course we have definitive proof that sending so...Of course we have definitive proof that sending someone to jail deters them from ever committing that (or a lesser) crime again. LOL<br /><br />Nice talking to you. Gotta run.Nancy LeTourneauhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12614317154146836694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7163441833245663827.post-25047538315296859792014-09-29T14:07:27.613-05:002014-09-29T14:07:27.613-05:00I have proof that after they were fined for commit...I have proof that after they were fined for committing one kind of fraud (which crashed the world's economy) they continued to commit another kind of fraud (robo-signing). <br />So the evidence shows the plea bargains are not working. <br /><br />Send them to prison. Maybe they'll lobby for prison reform. Win-win.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7163441833245663827.post-51807675135338637512014-09-29T13:41:12.389-05:002014-09-29T13:41:12.389-05:00How's that working out?"
Do you have evi...<i>How's that working out?"</i><br /><br />Do you have evidence that the financial institutions who engaged in these settlements continue to commit fraud? If so, that would be evidence its not working. Otherwise, perhaps it is.<br /><br />The deterrence value of punishment is HIGHLY overrated. All you have to do is look at the fact that the US imprisons more people than any other country on the planet. And yet we have one of the highest crime rates. Both liberals and conservatives need to temper their "tough on crime" assumptions.<br /><br />Nancy LeTourneauhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12614317154146836694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7163441833245663827.post-12369801354262495152014-09-29T13:15:38.351-05:002014-09-29T13:15:38.351-05:00Deterrence must play some role, yes?
How is Jamie ...Deterrence must play some role, yes?<br />How is Jamie Dimon and JP Chase deterred by fines?<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7163441833245663827.post-32936238452139183732014-09-29T13:09:37.820-05:002014-09-29T13:09:37.820-05:00"...the plea bargain is about requiring refor..."...the plea bargain is about requiring reforms that deal with corruption."<br /><br />How's that working out?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7163441833245663827.post-70349422999233070282014-09-29T13:06:43.190-05:002014-09-29T13:06:43.190-05:00Stopping the growth of the prison industrial compl...Stopping the growth of the prison industrial complex that locks up so many poor and minorities AND prosecute and imprison those who crashed the world's economy through fraud.? Sorry, that was just me and my high expectations. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7163441833245663827.post-2009777070501792372014-09-29T12:58:53.871-05:002014-09-29T12:58:53.871-05:00If you read Lakoff's 3rd argument - its about ...If you read Lakoff's 3rd argument - its about more than paying a fine. But as mimi says above, that is the only form of accountability that takes the needs of the victim into account. But beyond that, the plea bargain is about requiring reforms that deal with corruption. It recognizes that the systems need to change - not simply be punished to fill our need for revenge.Nancy LeTourneauhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12614317154146836694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7163441833245663827.post-44902314222759436202014-09-29T12:50:58.567-05:002014-09-29T12:50:58.567-05:00Lakoff's argument #3 is what should be critici...Lakoff's argument #3 is what should be criticized. <br />Paying a fine is a cost of doing business. And paying a fine of pennies on the dollar of what was stolen is a great deal. Look at Jame Dimon. He got a fat raise after his business was fined over $2 billion.<br />The game is rigged, and will continue to be rigged until we start imprisoning these crooks like the ones who steal radios out of cars.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7163441833245663827.post-39419923766017571312014-09-29T12:47:00.553-05:002014-09-29T12:47:00.553-05:00How is it about money?How is it about money?Nancy LeTourneauhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12614317154146836694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7163441833245663827.post-56576943082748359882014-09-29T12:38:07.941-05:002014-09-29T12:38:07.941-05:00And thank you for agreeing with me that, although ...And thank you for agreeing with me that, although it's not ONLY about money, it's about money to some extent.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7163441833245663827.post-65218377903125355892014-09-29T12:34:34.201-05:002014-09-29T12:34:34.201-05:00I'm encouraging you to criticize the decision....I'm encouraging you to criticize the decision. Just make it based on information rather than assumptions about things we don't know - like whether or not its motivated by money.<br /><br />Lakoff's argument #3 - that its part of a trend away from prosecuting individuals and towards plea bargaining in an attempt to reform corrupt systems - fits with lots of other decisions Holder/ Obama have made in other arenas. Nancy LeTourneauhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12614317154146836694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7163441833245663827.post-30342085723835153642014-09-29T12:26:36.529-05:002014-09-29T12:26:36.529-05:00I read it. Making the prosecution of high-level f...I read it. Making the prosecution of high-level financial fraud a low priority is a political decision. It didn't happen by circumstance. Holder, and Obama, could decide that prosecuting murderers is a low priority just the same. Would it be unfair to them to criticize that decision as well?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7163441833245663827.post-73776648245233158102014-09-29T12:17:35.444-05:002014-09-29T12:17:35.444-05:00That's why I'm so grateful to Eric Holder....That's why I'm so grateful to Eric Holder. He's done more than any other AG to stop the growth of the prison industrial complex that locks up so many poor and minorities.Nancy LeTourneauhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12614317154146836694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7163441833245663827.post-30377640767901112142014-09-29T12:16:07.166-05:002014-09-29T12:16:07.166-05:00You could try reading my link to Jed Lakoff.
But...You could try reading my link to Jed Lakoff. <br /><br />But whether or not Holder was right is not the point. Its good to hear both sides of that one argued. So thanks for not simply resorting to the lame arguments that its only about money.Nancy LeTourneauhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12614317154146836694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7163441833245663827.post-88582430909212192722014-09-29T12:12:31.082-05:002014-09-29T12:12:31.082-05:00Exactly. And Holder decided NOT to make that case....Exactly. And Holder decided NOT to make that case.<br />Read Bill Black. He shows the proof and makes the case. But what does the guy who prosecuted the S&L crooks know about financial fraud?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7163441833245663827.post-43297235647244398362014-09-29T12:08:05.593-05:002014-09-29T12:08:05.593-05:00Only the poor and minorities.Only the poor and minorities.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7163441833245663827.post-15322367897937062772014-09-29T11:54:12.294-05:002014-09-29T11:54:12.294-05:00The really great thing about our system is that yo...The really great thing about our system is that you have to prove fraud was committed - and by whom. Just saying so is not enough. Nancy LeTourneauhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12614317154146836694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7163441833245663827.post-19838835595728873532014-09-29T11:52:37.290-05:002014-09-29T11:52:37.290-05:00Anonymous - you seem to conflate prison with accou...Anonymous - you seem to conflate prison with accountability. Do you really believe that locking someone up is the only way we have to hold them accountable?Nancy LeTourneauhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12614317154146836694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7163441833245663827.post-40515361453148914212014-09-29T11:47:47.587-05:002014-09-29T11:47:47.587-05:00Great. Let's close the prisons, since no one s...Great. Let's close the prisons, since no one should be held accountable.<br />Fat good living in a rigged system will do for you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7163441833245663827.post-43116461777177846632014-09-29T11:29:37.225-05:002014-09-29T11:29:37.225-05:00The fraud was committed by the bankers and Wall St...The fraud was committed by the bankers and Wall Street.<br />Here's a fun fact: Fraud is a felony which is punishable by prison time if committed by the poor.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7163441833245663827.post-59802538648319369352014-09-27T18:56:19.128-05:002014-09-27T18:56:19.128-05:00Perfect response!Perfect response!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com